5.29.20: The death of George Floyd
Policing, race and fear
May 29, 2020.
Good Friday Morning. There’s no easy way to have conversations like this one. It’s tough to ask the right questions, and it’s even tougher to answer them. I appreciate the thought and candor you all put into yesterday’s questions, particularly those of you who submitted comments and feedback, all of which are included below.
Some of you pointed out that, absent a full investigation (which we internet observers can obviously not conduct), it’s inappropriate to discuss repercussions for any of the officers involved. While the video of the incident exists, that’s a fair point. The questions were trying, however imperfectly, to assess how we all are assessing the situation and how we are reacting to the information we have.
A few of you also had questions for the broader community:
I do not fear the police, but i also recognize the privilege I hold as a white woman. I’m also absolutely disgusted by Amy Cooper’s flaunting of that same status to Christian Cooper on the same day as George Floyd’s death. Curious if any Tina readers who are people of color have suggestions for what people like me should be doing. Just sharing Facebook/Instagram posts feels far too hollow.
It’s important to talk about racism but I would like some ideas on what I can do about it as an individual? I don’t want to do anything that would just be a short term reaction to the news.
Finally, I know we’ve had a heavy week of questions. It’s been a heavy week. There have been some calls for lighter questions on sports, celebrity gossip, favorite cities to visit or our favorite alcoholic beverages. We’ll try to make next week a little lighter. In the meantime, click on Let’s Talk to get started.
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Results from May 28, 2020
Question 1: On Monday evening, a Minneapolis man named George Floyd died in police custody. A video of the incident has gone viral on social media. Have you seen the video of this incident? Or are you familiar with the story?
Question 2: The office who had his knee on Floyd's neck was fired following the incident. What repercussions do you believe that police officer should face?
Question 3: There were three other police officers standing by while the incident took place. All three of them were also fired. What repercussions do you believe those police officers should face?
Question 4: Which of these factors do you believe play some role in incidents like the death of George Floyd?
Other write-in factors included:
Abuse of Power
Police officers should live where they work. Having a disconnect from the communities they police creates a divide that has become more explicit in recent years.
Toxic masculinity/police mindset; no mental health services for police officers; lack of compassion; loss of community cops
Question 5: Do you fear the police?
User Comments on the Death of George Floyd
Thanks for covering this story. It’s extremely important that people know about it, though it shouldn’t be a necessity to have seen the video of it. Though I have seen the video, we shouldn’t only hear or care about this after viewing the traumatic video. We don’t need to see videos of white people being murdered for there to be upset and consequences of their deaths, and we shouldn’t need to see black people being murdered to be convinced that black lives matter and racism is still a huge problem.
Question 3 shoe horned me. Other than merely being present ( 2 officers were not on video that I saw) it's difficult to say that their behavior even warrants a charge. Clearly they must have known what was going on - a complicating factor was the sheer length of time the knee on neck occurred (something like 9 minutes). If this isn't proof you need body cams, then I really don't know what to say, though that never stopped Baltimore's Finest to plant drugs on a crime scene but that's neither here nor there. Generally, I'm pro cop- But I'm not pro-do-whatever-the F***-you-want-because-you-have-a-gun-and-a-badge. Also, force must be met with a proportionate response, so it doesn't seem necessary or prudent (multiple camera angles again) to force him to the ground and then put a knee on a neck, ESPECIALLY, when they are likely to have non-lethal weapons like tazers, but it didn't look like George was being violent, even if he was, is four officers with non-lethal weapons not enough to subdue one non-violent man? If it's not then we need to massively increase our police force everywhere or buy up every terminator not in existence. seriously wtf Minneapolis PD?? All should lose jobs. Lastly, whatever George was accused of, certainly did not warrant death. I'm also anti death penalty, because I don't think we should give the state the power to prescribe an irreversible penalty for a crime. This also speaks bigger volumes about how ineffective our "criminal justice" system is, as it has never rectified it's own purpose, is it meant to be punitive, or ameliorative? #endrant.
A member of my family was a police officer who was killed in the line of duty. Since then my family and I have had a strong respect for police. As these events have been brought to the attention of the general public, I've tried to have honest discussions with them to ensure they still hold respect for officers but are not blind to the flaws and imperfections of some officers. These conversations do not always go well, and I'm often brought to silence. I know there are good officers out there, but knowing there are officers that can bring so much harm is very hard to ignore.
As a white, middle class female, the way I "fear" the police is different than the way POC fear the police. Calling it fear isn't even really accurate, which is why I chose 'I Don't Know' for that answer. I get nervous when I see the police, but it's because I'm worried I'll get a ticket or have to pay a fine. I'm not scared I'll be mistaken for a criminal, or have something on me be confused with a weapon, or that I will be handled brutally. Those are real reasons to fear the police that POC face.
I think Derek Chauvin should be charged with murder. The other three officers should be charged with lesser offenses. Unfortunately, I have little faith that any of them will be convicted of anything though
Still not completely understanding what happened
I just watched Straight Outta Compton last night, I think Ice Cube said it best, “F*** tha Police”
Incidents like this DO NOT happen to people who cooperate with the simple requests of law enforcement officers.
Black lives matter.
So, I may be inherently biased because someone close to me in my life is a cop and has been a cop for a very long time. Whenever something surfaces about a police-involved shooting, my heart drops. Regardless of what transpires, the cops are made out to be the enemy and the hatred towards them as a collective group is ultimately fueled. I always find it interesting how people will be like “screw the police” and then the next day it turns out they need their help. BUT, this incident with a George Floyd is appalling. The cop seen kneeling on Floyd’s neck should be charged with a crime. (The fellow cops standing by should be, too, for not getting involved) Horrible. Unfortunately, it really fuels the hatred towards the police. People are definitely entitled to be upset but should know that cops are there to protect & serve and ones involved in this MN incident with Floyd should never have been given a badge in the first place.
I used to think the police were there to protect me. I see now that I was thinking from my privileged position as a white woman. I know there are good police out there, but structurally law enforcement is corrupt. Too many LEOs are people with a bully mentality who believe they can do no wrong because of a position they chose. When something does go wrong, you'll almost never hear an LEO admit it, even as an outside perspective. The more I learn about the systemic problems in law enforcement, many stemming from racism, the less I trust the police. I am less likely now to call 911 for help. The police are there to strong arm, control, and arrest, not help.
I don’t fear the police because I’m a white female, but in some cases (and certainly with these more recent unfortunate examples) I don’t agree with how they carry/hold their leadership and position of power privilege.
The video was sickening, I couldn't watch for much longer than a minute. Just a complete and humiliating lack of humanity being displayed. The officer who caused his death should probably be charged with murder, but I can see this playing out and him getting a manslaughter charge and pleading guilty with a sweetheart deal for minimal jail time. Sigh.
I don't fear the police bc I'm a white female. I understand that its different between me and others bc of the color of my skin. There was the kid who didn't completely stop at the stop sign got a gun pulled on him. If I did that...worse I would get is a ticket if the officer decided to even bother.
Spreading these kinds of videos on social media is irresponsible. There is no context. In addition, the average viewer has no knowledge of police procedures or of criminal law. Increasing racial tension seems to be the objective. Having said that, I kept thinking, “Move your knee. Shift your weight. You are really hurting this guy.” I, too, am angry and sickened by all of the officers’ behavior BUT we didn’t see the whole situation and we don’t know the procedures.
George Floyd is a modern day lynching. Period. My grandchildren’s godfather actively chooses to dress in pastel colors to avoid looking threatening to others. I never knew that African American men actually had to put thought into their clothing so as not to be shot or arrested
Regarding the factors for Floyd's death- the core issue is implicit bias rooted in race. Does "misunderstanding" stem from racial differences? Perhaps. But calling it a"misunderstanding" is the shouts of a racist trying not be appear explicitly racist. Trump's language in the coming days will surely reflect the "misunderstanding" or "bad apple" approach. That way he doesn't disturb his largely white base with racial language. White moderates will likely give him a pass as they are quite comfortable with decades of being "colorblind".
Riots occurring due to this injustice are awful. Hopeful true facts are uncovered and responsible parties are held fully accountable for all actions.
I don’t fear the police for myself because I know the chances of them hurting a small, white woman like myself are extremely low. I do fear that police do damage, and in fact murder, people I care about who do not look like me.
I voted to charge all four men with crimes, but I do feel bad for the vast majority of Minneapolis police officers who I'm sure are similarly repulsed by the event. Their jobs are now that much more difficult, even dangerous (the rioting, for example).
It was murder. Period. America had to watch ANOTHER person be murdered. At this point, I am just so sick of it. I answered no to whether I am afraid of police. I am not afraid because I am a white woman in America and I have the privilege of being perceived as non-threatening. But, I fear for my family members, friends, and other Americans who do not share the privilege of light skin because the disparity in how people of color are treated by police is overwhelmingly clear. It MUST be addressed. America is getting tired of this crap, and I don't know how much longer people will put up with it.
It's tough to answer the generalized questions about the George Floyd case from media reports and a few video clips- but I answered based on what I know today.
I was very glad to hear the Mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, day that if he or anyone other than a police officer had killed someone, they would be arrested. Why haven’t these officers been arrested?
As a white person, I am not "afraid" of the police in the same way that I would be if I were a minority, but I am well aware of the type of people that the role attracts and those individuals tend to be people who like to have power over others and (in some cases) abuse that power. That abuse comes in many forms and that should be scary for everyone. It is a crisis.
While what I've read/seen indicates valid reason to charge the police officer with a crime, it does not necessarily indicate guilt. Let a jury hear all the evidence and decide.
For questions #2 &3, you needed an answer that started with “after a full and fair investigation into the matter...” I did not answer that question because I cannot play judge or jury based on a video and media coverage alone. Do I think what appeared to have happened was unnecessary and reprehensible, absolutely. But that’s an emotional response, not a legal one.
I never understood the MLK quote “a riot is the language of the unheard” until I read a book “The Hate U Give”. When racist actions are protested and marched against, talked and written about... and still repeated again and again, the pain can be gut wrenching and the reaction intense and immediate. To burn your neighborhood is not logical, but I have not walked in their shoes.
I haven’t been able to bring myself to watch the video because of how disturbing it’s reported to be, but the way the police continues to act with total impunity shakes me to my core. I indicated that I think fear is a factor in these instances, but in the sense that the so-called “good cops” are afraid to speak out against bad cops out of fear of retribution. Derek Chauvin, the officer who murdered George Floyd, had a history of brutality over the years: 17 complaints filed against him, all but one closed without discipline. This is not a man who was afraid, this is a man who willfully abused his position and existing power structures to carry out his own perverse form of “justice.” “Good cops” routinely allow these incidents to happen without repercussions. Their silence makes them complicit.
Just a reminder that even though this situation is quite horrific and terrible to even watch...not ALL cops are bad. Yes, we've seen many do the wrong thing but there are still some out there who respect their community and the people who live in it.
As a white male whose dad was a fireman, I grew up in a neighborhood full of firemen and cops and I loved it. But it was a very different experience than folks I went to college with or have met since. It's been interesting to learn how different the experience was. It makes me grateful for my situation, disappointed others have a very different experience, and searching for an answer as to why it was so different.
For questions #2 & #3, I think there should be a death penalty option. All 4 should get the death penalty. Also, abuse of power is a major issue.
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